Is it really over?

[CeaseFireStrategies]

This thread was salvaged from the old forums, and was started by a user no longer registered with CFS.

Are we talking about the culture war in general or specifically the arena of tv and movies? How have we determined the war is over? or are we just changing tactics? What tactics have been used in the past? Why should we change them? OR are you suggesting we quit altogether?

[MelioraEric]

These are really good questions, and you've hit the nail on the head for what will be the biggest issue for people to grasp. This is the central issue that many will debate. I want to quote something my friend Craig Detweiler wrote at his website: http://www.purplestateofmind.com, which I hope he is okay with me doing. But, before I do, to answer your thoughts, yes, we are talking about the culture war in general. Although, we are focusing more intently on how to better interact with TV and film.

We, as Christians, can determine the war is over because the tactics we're using on the offense are proving themselves to not work, nor are they Christ-like. I'm not suggesting we quit spreading the Gospel, but we cannot take the aggressive offense that we've been taking.

For details on this issue, explored in more depth, I'll have to defer you to our book, "Cease Fire, the War is Over!", or listen to our premiere episode of the radio show. Both of these will give you a better understanding of our position / mission at CFS.

On this week's radio show, we are having Craig Detweiler and John Marks on to talk about their award-winning documentary, "Purple State of Mind". This film fits our mission so perfectly that it will be another resource available to you, for understanding what has taken place.

So, to wrap up, let me quote something from Craig's blog that I think is a perfect summation of this issue:

Those who think of Christianity as a doctrine to be imparted, an argument to be won, or a system to be upheld have generally missed the point of Purple State of Mind (although the movie tends to reward second viewings). They cannot even hear my personal testimony of transformation rooted in Raging Bull or grasp that I spell out the full scope of Biblical history and the Gospel in the Dallas exchange. They may even miss that after all the arguments, my disbelieving discussion partner finds moments of beauty that keeps him from closing the book on the Divine. (I've also spelled out more detailed reasons for my reticence in my new book.) Those who want a stronger defense of the faith may still exert plenty of influence as Christian cheerleaders, rallying the faithful, reassuring them that nothing has or needs to change. But that's not my audience. Purple State of Mind appeals to those who've already heard too much from the Christian community (and maybe even tried it and found it seriously lacking). So how do we respond to a world we've largely alienated? (Check out our cinematic companion, Lord Save Us From Your Followers. It offers a comprehensive, comedic take on how we dug this cultural hole of our own making). -- Craig Detweiler

[timothym]

I think it all depends on your mindset. Is the war over in your mind? We personally don't feel like we need to go "to war" with culture. I think if you read the New Testament letters, you find that the Christian community wasn't living off in their own corner of the world. They lived next door to pagans. They worked in the marketplace with pagans. They undoubtedly had friends who were pagans. I think one of the distinctions of Christianity is that we're not called to physically separate ourselves. In fact, Ss. Peter and Paul (whose feast we celebrated a couple of weeks ago) were sent to the Gentiles to proclaim the Messiah. Many early converts were businessmen and high ranking members of society. They may have lost their livelihoods because of oppression and persecution from their pagan neighbors. But there was no Apostolic teaching that forbade them from carrying out their professional lives.

In the arena of media and culture, I think that we need to quit putting on the "us vs. them" mentality and start working with "them" to better things. We can't complain about the current status of the world if we're unwilling to engage the world in anything but hostile "repent or fry" monologues. Our overall mission is to get people to realize that there's no need for a culture war.

[Davonie]

waddup... hAhA...

hMMMM?

My grandma and grandpa used to take care of me and my sisters while my parents went to work. My grandpa Pio, a great philosopher and EVANGELIST... used to walk for miles and miles in the philippines... GIVING THE WORD... while being thankful for being able to support his 9 children from offerings that was given back from THE WORD.

Anyways... imagine having that type of person raising you... to the point of being sick of it... being smothered by it... always hearing about God.

Thats how I picture our country... sick of hearing about God...

But its always like that I think? We get tired of the same things over and over... like a spoiled kid with too many toys... making us not care of THE GIFT. But looking back at how I was raised... its a blessing... BEING FED WITH THE WORD. Now its my responsibility to do da same thing, even though my life is wrong sometimes, I pray to GIVE.

With that said... why should we STOP FEEDING THE WORD? Its a Gift... and like all gifts... it should be GIVEN. People don't need to accept if they don't want to... but that doesn't mean we should stop GIVING THE WORD. They'll always be CONTRAST... what some people may see as war... we either are running away from God, or RUNNING TO IT... but da killa thing about it is... its there either way.

(Matthew 25: 31-46)

[MelioraEric]

Hey D.,

First off, welcome to the boards. I'm so glad to see you here.

Second, my title to this post is perhaps going to be a bit off as I don't have much time for a reply right now, but I did want to touch on something.

I fully believe in evangelism and 'giving the word'. It's one of our greatest duties as Christians to share our faith. On yesterday's show, Brian Godawa used an analogy of a pauper in the gutter. He said we're just another pauper in the gutter. We should go to someone and say, "I want to share something with you that has helped me. I think it has done well for me and just want to share it."

But instead, we go in with, "Here's the reason you're so dirty. You need this and this and this. Without this, you're life will be miserable." We forget that we're still just a pauper in the gutter, thinking that with Jesus, our lives are perfect. We still have the same problems as everyone else. The difference is in 'the following life'. Another 'pauper will be put off if you go trying to act like you've got it so much better when they can clearly see you're no different, especially if they aren't asking you about the 'hope that you have' (1 Peter 3:15).

For Tim and I, it's a matter of attitude. I think the reason many are 'sick of hearing abut God' is that many try to shove it on others. If Christ gave us the free gift of Salvation, he also meant for it to be willingly accepted. Or, willingly rejected, for that matter. I don't think we give people a choice. We are like slick marketers and sales men trying to hock off something that's free in the first place. We cheapen something of great value, all because we try to push it on to everyone.

But, if we do it in love, which will take some time due to the reputation we've built up for fighting and arguing (which has it's place at times), than i think we will see more people 'come in to the fold'.

Anyway, I need to head out, but maybe later I can give a more 'definition' type answer to the terms 'Evangelism' and 'Evangelicalism'. They are vastly different.

Again, thanks for joining us here. I'm mailing your copy of the book out today.

Aloha!

[Davonie]

1 Peter 3:15

I like dat piece...

Should we CEASE still? We need some type of ACTION... right?

[MelioraEric]

Oh sure, but our form of action takes form as diplomacy. It's why you'll find the post rankings, for our members, are all diplomatic in nature.

When you get to read the book, you'll see lots of ideas for how we can have a more productive course of action. The only thing we are calling for as a ceasefire, are the militant actions. Our book describes some of those issues too.

And, our radio show brainstorms more ideas for diplomacy. We just had a great interview with screenwriter, Brian Godawa, who has worked as a Christian, in Hollywood, for many years.

[MelioraEric]

I post this for added discussion to this topic. CFS doesn't necessarily agree with the video point by point, but it is a good springboard and reminder that this question is far from being no longer asked.

(C) Copyright 2009 CNN

[MikelWisler]

Wow, what a fascinating report. I do have to say, it does sound a little like Dobson was sort misquoted. Glad that was clarified there. But that's just the tendency of TV news really, not really a left or right issue at all. TV news loves to take the most potent soundbite and run with it. Gets people hooked. And you sit there through the commercial, which hopefully means you'll buy that paper towel or that car.

I think I respect Dobson ... in a sort of conflicted and disrespectful way ... I know he's fought these battles out of a sincere desire to defend what he sees is right. But maybe it is time to really hang up the old cross-embroidered boxing gloves. I'm not sure going about winning these battles on a cultural front has really helped us. If the Kingdom of God is about transformed lives, how is it that transforming policy will accomplish this goal? Honest question here, I've been perplexed by this attitude for years now. So while I can appreciate Dobson's sincerity and passion, it's honestly been a long, long time since I can say I looked up to him or thought he was going about things in the right way.

So I guess I say all of this to express a simple idea ... there's a whole growing number of us ... postmondern Christians (for lack of a better term) out here in the world that are watching this news post and shrugging because this sort of old news. But, as so often is the case, Evangelicalism is about 15 years behind the cultural curve in America. Heck, I still hear fellow Evangelicals gripping about Creationsim ... is that really still a battling point? To the thoroughly postmodern mind, Creationism, Evolution ... they're all wonderful myths that try to explain what we just can't seem to wrap our brains around in the first place. But, be it Creationism, Abortion, Gay Marriage, or whatever, we still seem to be stuck on the idea of changing lives by winning arguments. Which is funny, when you think about it. Did Jesus ever try to argue his way out of being crucified? He was pretty bright. Maybe he could have?